"Cop Haters"

[subie cop]

Several years ago I started the first Cop Haters thread on a different website and it met with fairly good response (some of you may already be familiar with the threads).

The purpose of these Cop Hater threads is to give anyone a chance to ask questions regarding police issues...I started this thread NOT for the haters (the name was to grab your attention which if your reading this it must have worked) but for those of you who want to ask honest questions about various situations such as "I got stopped yesterday for 25mph over, what should I expect".

I can't/won't give legal advice nor will I recite laws word for word as you can look those up yourself but I will try and help answer some of the questions you may have.


Again, haters...post your own thread.

Oh, and yes...I am a Police Officer and no, I wont tell you where I work.

[subie cop]

One of the most common questions I get is "I got a ticket, what do I do?" or "Ticket, help!"

Unfortunately no one is immune to tickets and sometimes one of us gets pinched. Most of the time these "ticket" threads appear to be a place where the original poster wants information regarding his/her chances of getting the ticket reduced and sometimes its just a place to bitch about the cops. Since the topic has been discussed MANY times a simple search would eventually find the answer the OP is looking for....especially in one of my 3 SC threads

So, that being said I thought I'd post a thread about what usually happens in Michigan courts.


After a ticket is issued you have two choices.

1. Set a court date
2. Pay the ticket

If it were me, I'd always set some sort of court date because the chances of getting a ticket reduced is pretty damn good (depending on a few criteria which Ill talk about later).

__________

There are usually three types of court appearances, Pretrial, Informal and Formal. Some of you will go through all three and some will to one or two.

Pretrial -

Here you meet with the city/township prosecutor who usually offers you a "deal" depending on your driving record. If you take the deal then its over, you go to the front desk and pay the fine. If you don't like the deal offered then another court date is set, usually a Formal.

Informal -

Here you are in front of a magistrate along with the original Officer that wrote the ticket. When it comes your time the magistrate will call you up, swear you in and then do the same with the Officer. The magistrate will read the violation and give you one of three options.

1. plead responsible - you admit responsibility and pay the fine

2. plead responsible with an explanation - you admit responsibility but give an explanation as to why the violation occurred. Sometimes this can influence the magistrate in their decision if there is a good reason for doing what you did.

3. take it to a hearing - you fight the ticket. Here you both will tell your side of the story and the magistrate will then decide your "fate" based on both testimonies.

Once the magistrate has rulled you have the right to take the matter to a Formal hearing, essentially appealing the ruling.

side note: look for the Officer outside the court room prior to going into court. If you find him/her ask to speak with them regarding what occured that day. Be nice and ask if there is any way they could help you out regarding the points. Often you will find that this works in your favor.

Formal -

Here you meet with the Officer who is represented by the city/township prosecutor. You can either bring your own attorney or represent yourself. Your attorney will then try and work out a deal for you with the prosecutor and the Officer (who has some say but its really up to the prosecutor). If you have no attorney then you can attempt to do the same. If a deal can not be worked out the matter goes before a Judge in the same manner as the Informal. The Judge wont ask you how you plead because its assumed by now your not gonna admit responsibility.

Both the Officer and you will get on the stand and testify as to what occurred that day. You will then be questioned by the city/township prosecutor and the Officer will be questioned by either you (if you have no attorney) or your attorney. Based on the testimonies the Judge will make his/her decision.

Something to also note. Before the hearing if your offered a deal its null/void if you take it to a hearing. If your found responsible there the original violation holds true.

__________

Things that are often taken into consideration when taking a ticket to court.

1. Your driving record

2. Your attitude at the traffic stop (the Officer will take notes and everything will be recorded - if the city has cameras)

3. Are you a resident where the violation occurred (breaks are often given to residents due to them being taxepayers...but not always)

__________

There is no exact science but this is usually the procedure in Michigan traffic court. Some cities/townships are more strict and despite the request of Officers, lawyers and prosecutors your stuck with the original ticket.

__________


Tints:

As of 10/27/09

We were advised by SOS that they will no longer accept tint tickets written under the vision obstruction law (2points) and abstract those to your driving record. Tint tickets need to be written under defective equipment (can be waived). This is not LAW but something SOS is doing. I dont know the specifics but our traffic division is looking into this for more clarification.

I still have no idea why people complain about tint tickets when they know that tint on the windshield, driver or passengers front window is not legal in Michigan.


I have chosen to lock the thread for this reason. Often a point is made in the OP's first post.... so many times the thread then becomes off topic and the original meaning is lost. I will sometimes add to this thread with more information but the purpose is to help answer the "I just got a ticket....now what?"

As always, feel free to PM me or post in my SC thread.

[subie cop]

I will keep this thread open for discussion as long as I have honest questions and not *itch sessions about cops etc.

I will try and respond as quickly as I can and if there is an issue you dont want public feel free to PM me.

[WhtRexGrl]

You wont get bit***** from me, my dad was a cop for 40 years.

[subie cop]

You wont get bit***** from me, my dad was a cop for 40 years.

thanks :)

[twizz]

I've always had tickets reduced or dismissed when I go to court. I am definitely in agreement with you on that :cool:
I do criminal background research, so if someone wants to shoot me a.. well what's gonna happen if I do this? question.. Feel free.

[xxthat girlxx]

Thanks for this thread. Hopefully I won't ever have questions to ask!

My brother is an officer in NH, so I have other informational resources as well. :)

[jessickascarling]

Thanks for posting this!

I have a question though. Dan was coming home from work a few years ago when he worked second shift. He got out at midnight and he was on his bike. There was a car tailgating him so he pulled over to let the car pass. The car stopped behind him and it was a cop. He got out of his car (keep in mind, no blues or anything. He wasn't officially pulled over) and told Dan he saw him almost dump his bike which was not true at all. The cop then made it sound like he had pulled him over for a reason. Dan said no, he didn't pull him over, he stopped because he didn't want to get rear ended if he had to stop quickly. Come to find out, the cop put something on record stating he was beligerent and what-not so whenever he gets pulled over that comes up. Can that be removed from his record because that's def NOT what happened?

[subie cop]

Thanks for posting this!

I have a question though. Dan was coming home from work a few years ago when he worked second shift. He got out at midnight and he was on his bike. There was a car tailgating him so he pulled over to let the car pass. The car stopped behind him and it was a cop. He got out of his car (keep in mind, no blues or anything. He wasn't officially pulled over) and told Dan he saw him almost dump his bike which was not true at all. The cop then made it sound like he had pulled him over for a reason. Dan said no, he didn't pull him over, he stopped because he didn't want to get rear ended if he had to stop quickly. Come to find out, the cop put something on record stating he was beligerent and what-not so whenever he gets pulled over that comes up. Can that be removed from his record because that's def NOT what happened?

Was Dan cited? How was this incident "documented" or did the Ofcr. just say that it would be documented?

[bannerd]

Thanks for posting this!

I have a question though. Dan was coming home from work a few years ago when he worked second shift. He got out at midnight and he was on his bike. There was a car tailgating him so he pulled over to let the car pass. The car stopped behind him and it was a cop. He got out of his car (keep in mind, no blues or anything. He wasn't officially pulled over) and told Dan he saw him almost dump his bike which was not true at all. The cop then made it sound like he had pulled him over for a reason. Dan said no, he didn't pull him over, he stopped because he didn't want to get rear ended if he had to stop quickly. Come to find out, the cop put something on record stating he was beligerent and what-not so whenever he gets pulled over that comes up. Can that be removed from his record because that's def NOT what happened?

He can have it removed, you'd have to make a court case out of it. If the pieces are right then it will fall in your favor, if not then you can't fight it.

[Lperkins88]

My brother is in the NYPD so he has helped me a lot...

Thanks for posting this thread ;)

[twizz]

He can have it removed, you'd have to make a court case out of it. If the pieces are right then it will fall in your favor, if not then you can't fight it.



Yup. Call the court clerks first to make sure of exactly what was documented. Then you'll have to grab a lawyer, take it to court, and try to get it dismissed/retired/nolle prossed.

[subie cop]

Short of it being a racial, slanderous or a similar type comment he can not get it removed. That is why I asked how it was documented or if it was just a bluff on the Ofcrs. part.

If I put in a report or my ticket notes that someone was being "beligerent" that is/was my observation at the time of the incident. It will essentially become a he said/he said situation.

I was not there at the time of the incident so its not fair for me to "take sides" either one was right/wrong.

[Woody '04]

I will admit I don't have the best general attitude towards cops. Some reasons are personal, some observation. Fortunately I haven't gotten very many tickets over the years, and have known some cops at somewhere between the friend and acquaintance level.

In my estimation, there are 1/3 pretty good cops that take things seriously and are fair, 1/3 in-between like "it's a job", and 1/3 that can get to the "ass" stage very quickly (like they have a chip on their shoulder).

Question:
Where exactly does the speed limit change? When you can see the sign, or when you are even with it?

I know, drive to play it safe both ways but I was wondering if there was an "official", consistent national answer?

[im_so_blue]

i got a uncle whos a cop in florida and when he gets bored when he comes visit he tells me all kinds of weird stuff his department does to catch violators.

[twizz]

I will admit I don't have the best general attitude towards cops. Some reasons are personal, some observation. Fortunately I haven't gotten very many tickets over the years, and have known some cops at somewhere between the friend and acquaintance level.

In my estimation, there are 1/3 pretty good cops that take things seriously and are fair, 1/3 in-between like "it's a job", and 1/3 that can get to the "ass" stage very quickly (like they have a chip on their shoulder).

Question:
Where exactly does the speed limit change? When you can see the sign, or when you are even with it?

I know, drive to play it safe both ways but I was wondering if there was an "official", consistent national answer?


I was with my hubby when he got pulled for not slowing down at a speed limit change. According to that officer, you have to be doing the speed limit when you hit the sign

[im_so_blue]

yea i am under the assumption you treat it like a stop sign..

You stop at the sign (or line painted for you on the street)

so in this case

Sign says 35mph you have to be doing 35 or less by the time you start passing that sign.

[subie cop]

I have never heard of a firm rule of when the limit starts. That being said, its safe to assume that it would start AT the sign. I know of no Ofcr. in our township that waits at the sign for someone..but Im sure there are guys out there that would.

[im_so_blue]

I have never heard of a firm rule of when the limit starts. That being said, its safe to assume that it would start AT the sign. I know of no Ofcr. in our township that waits at the sign for someone..but Im sure there are guys out there that would.

i know this cause i have been picked up for this exact thing (only ticket too knock on wood).

I will say this though sometimes if you are un sure about roads there may be a chance the officer believe it or not is too.

I was visiting my uncle in Florida and he had a few cop buddies over and they were talking about this one street recently changed speed limits from 50mph to 55mph. and that this one police officer was picking people up for 55 in a 50 and didn't know about the 50 to 55 switch till that day.

So if you want ground to stand on in court the best way to go about it is to make sure you do all the research you can!

[djmatao]

Great info!!! I have a question, the thread can be found on the SCIC in NASIOC, but my buddy got a ref ticket on his subie, it's an out of state vehicle and is only here visiting and having Some work done, Because the car is not Cali registered, is that ticket really hold valid? If that makes sense

[subie cop]

Great info!!! I have a question, the thread can be found on the SCIC in NASIOC, but my buddy got a ref ticket on his subie, it's an out of state vehicle and is only here visiting and having Some work done, Because the car is not Cali registered, is that ticket really hold valid? If that makes sense
a "ref" ticket?

[djmatao]

a "ref" ticket?

Yeah a ref ticket. He was told that he had to put it back to stock to pass te Cali state ref test, but the cars an out of state car. It doesn't live here.

[im_so_blue]

you mean inspection test?

if so the cop has no ground to stand on for that.

Like for instance heres a good example of this that works as a loop hole

Alright for lifted trucks in vermont is i think the bumper can't exceed 36 inches off the ground.

But Nevada virtually doesn't have a lift law. So a person can cruise in vermont with a truck as tall as they want with out having to get a bumper extender due to this.

But it gets tricky as say for instance

Since NH is the only state left in the country that doesn't have a full on seat belt law (you have to be 18 or older to ride seatbeltless in NH) doesn't mean a NH resident can ride around in other states without a seat belt on just cause their state law states they can in NH

[subie cop]

Yeah a ref ticket. He was told that he had to put it back to stock to pass te Cali state ref test, but the cars an out of state car. It doesn't live here.

Never heard of a "ref" ticket, if your referring to an emissions citation then you would have to check the laws of California. Normally I would say that since the vehicle is an out of state vehicle it would be exempt from the emissions requirements....however, he has to check with the local/state laws of California as I know they are very strict concerning emissions. They may have a right to cite someone if it meets certain criteria, go online or call the state for more information.

[subie cop]

if so the cop has no ground to stand on for that.


you don't know that for sure as you dont know all thats involved with this story, nor do I which is why I cant/wont comment with 100% confidence.

[subie cop]

Yeah a ref ticket. He was told that he had to put it back to stock to pass te Cali state ref test, but the cars an out of state car. It doesn't live here.
I dont know the whole story and am not familure with the California emissions law. It may be required to comply with the emissions for some reason which is why he should speak with someone there who is an expert on California emissions.

[Woody '04]

I have never heard of a firm rule of when the limit starts. That being said, its safe to assume that it would start AT the sign. I know of no Ofcr. in our township that waits at the sign for someone..but Im sure there are guys out there that would.

I got a ticket once for something like 52 in a 45 before the speed limit changed. I saw the trooper in the unmarked car and noted where he passed me - about 100+ yards before the first 45 sign. I was just in college and it was close enough I went back and took pictures. (I had already gotten one well-deserved ticked and changed my ways a little.) Of course in court the trooper didn't remember exactly where he stopped me but I think I impressed the judge somewhat. I did get the car speedo checked out and it was off maybe 3 or 4 mph and the ticket officially got dismissed for improper equipment.

That officer was probably one of the "middle of the road" types, although he was a little bit of a prick too. He seemed a little agitated when he first stopped me because I slowed down to about 40 and drove 1/2 - 1 mile to stop in the parking lot of a convenience store (rather than immediately pulling in somebody's driveway or on a narrow shoulder with an incline and a ditch!) It was daytime, but still pays to be safe.

If it was night now I would have no problem calling 911 and telling them I was being pulled but was going to a lighted parking lot to pull over even if it took 5 miles and not to get too excited or call out the whole police force on me or whatever.