Suspension upgrades thread

[Bu11dogg2]

Anyone who ever saw or rode in my Suby wagon knows that I am serious about suspension.

It is my opinion that anyone can make a car go fast by slapping on a few upgrades and OTS tune, but not everyone can design and tune a suspension.

First things first.....

If you're looking to upgrade your suspension there are a few things you need to consider.

1. Ride Quality: Stiffer suspensions will make for a stiffer ride. If yo have a bad back, or kids.... you could find yourself wasting $100's of $$$ on parts you will just end up taking off.

2. Parts Quality: Yes, that ebay sway bar may be $40 cheaper.... but it is also cheaper quality and lower grade metal. You don't have to pay top $$$ for a good suspension, but you also can't cheap out.

3. Reliability: Go with a trusted name, trust me on this one

4. YOUR NEEDS: Do you drag? rally? Auto-X? daily driver? are you in it for looks? These are all things to consider when choosing your suspension.


There is a lot more to suspension then just throwing on a set of springs and a strut tower bar. You have to take careful consideration of you current modifications and suspension needs.

The biggest mistake people make is buying a set up that is uncomfortable to drive daily.

My suggestion to any of you who are considering suspension mods is to first ride in a car with your desired suspension mods. If it still feels ok..... the next step is choosing your parts.

The majority of Subaru owners only change springs. Changing springs will alter not only your ride height, but also ride quality, stiffness and handling.

You have MANY MANY options when it comes to buying springs. A simple google search will yield 10+ different makes and sizes.

The basic and most popular options are:

1. Tein S-Tech/H-Tech
2. STi Pink Springs
3. Prodrive

Here is a FULL list of all known available springs for your WRX (Legacy owners should search vendor sites for fitments)
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...eL_KhwEw&gid=1

Ok... so you chose which springs you want based off of pictures, drop/raise levels, price and reliability. What's next?

Install of course

Unless you have done this before or have someone helping you who has done this before DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you release the strut from the spring it is under PRESSURE and can/will injure/kill you!!!!
Always ask a professional or fellow member for help.


Another pretty basic upgrade is the Strut tower bar. The basic stock set up is pretty decent for daily, street legal driving. But don't kid yourself.... you want something better right?

well... the truth is.... they don't really do much Subaru's are built with a rigid frame to support the AWD system and unless your making 1-2g turns a strut bar is just a pretty neat thing to look at.

The strut tower bar acts a brace between your 2 tophats.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/Bu11dogg2/wagon/suby017.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/Bu11dogg2/wagon/suby018.jpg




Just like springs.... there are hundreds to choose from.
I chose the STi because I though it looked cool.

F/R Sways and Endlinks

Now we're getting into the nitty-gritty

One of the best upgrades you can do suspension wise is get stiffer sways and endlink bushings.

$ for $ this is one of the best suspension upgrades out there!!!


Sway bars reduce body roll and body sway. YOU WILL feel a difference in the handling of your car when you upgrade your sways :)

http://www.buttdynoracing.com/faqs/swaybar/swaybar-basics.jpg




There are a million options....

Like I mentioned before... stiffer the sway/endlink, stiffer the ride. You need to decide what your goal is before you purchase!

I recommend buying a sway in the 60mm - 80mm range.

[Bu11dogg2]

Next up is struts/coilovers:

Now these are a HUGE pet peeve of mine

There are so many options out there to choose from and finding one that is right for you is challenging.

Your struts control the ride quality of your car. Super stiff struts will make for bumpy ride and super soft will make for a bad handling car

Another popular option is coilovers. Most coilovers allow you to adjust camber and yaw, ride height and stiffness. Some even allow you to do this from inside the car!!!

so.. how do you choose the right strut/coilover?

1. It's do or die, you must decide what kind of ride you want.
2. Price, how much $$$$ do you want to spend?
3. Quality, i'll get into this in more detail.

The biggest thing about Coil overs is quality. The ebay special may be cheap.... but they will need to be rebuilt after 5-10,000 miles. This means you have to take them off and send them in for a rebuild and wait up to 2 months to get them back.

Other brands such as TEIN can and will last you as long as 40k depending on your driving habits. Some models offer free rebuilds for life, other offer an exchange program.

DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE BUYING!!!

that ebay special $300 adjustable coilover set could cost you $2,000 in rebuilds over the course of 40k miles whereas a set of teins with free rebuilds are only a one time cost of $1300 for the coilovers

DO YOU RESEARCH BEFORE BUYING!!!

When you buy a set of adjustable coilovers you have to adjust them yourself. This means adjusting yaw, camber, ride height, stiffness and alignment.

If you can't do this yourself... it can be BIG $$$$ to get it done at a shop

If you do it yourself and mess up.... you can cause an accident, damage your car or even worse.... get someone killed

Make sure you read the instructions carefully and ask for help.

TUNING YOUR SUSPENSION:

I'm no expert on this, nor will ever pretend to be. There is so much to learn when it comes to getting your car ready for a event like auto-x or rally.

Here are some informative threads to help you out

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=203801

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1106362

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478371

Happy tuning!

[07SubieQT]

Wow!! Nice job!! Very informative!! :) This should maybe go on the website as part of "Ownership 101"!!

[xxthat girlxx]

Ownership 101 will be quite a bit more basic and more towards regular/preventative maintanence. But thanks for this helpful info Randy!

[RCKSTR]

thats alot of info to take in Randy lol. man this makes me realize I need to do sways and endlinks now...

[xxthat girlxx]

thats alot of info to take in Randy lol. man this makes me realize I need to do sways and endlinks now...

+1

I did Koni inserts and Prodrive springs and I can't wait to get sways/endlinks!

[Bu11dogg2]

Next to the actual "tuning" process, building a good suspension is the toughest thing you can do to a suby.

Getting everything right and having a good balance between your wants and needs is tough.

[subiemommy]

I was just going to ask suspension questions! Great thread! Thanks. I'll read it a few more times then see if I still have questions, which I'm sure I will.

[Pitcherman]

To sum this thread up.

Everyone should own TiC SST coilovers, Vorshlag plates front and rear, Whiteline sway bars, and have a roll cage.

All other setups are an effort in futility.

:D

[subiemommy]

To sum this thread up.

Everyone should own TiC SST coilovers, Vorshlag plates front and rear, Whiteline sway bars, and have a roll cage.

All other setups are an effort in futility.

:D

Ok that being said here is my question. I want to put a bit of height on my car. I want more of a Rally style suspention, I guess. I want to be able to take my car to the mountains and really get in there on the dirt roads with the big rocks in the way, ok maybe not BIG rocks, on not flat terrain. Eric and I like to backpack and there have been times we have to stop short and hike in from farther way meaning we can't hike in as far as we'd like in the time we have. So I want my car to be able to make in in farther, over stuff his car can't. So would the set up you discribed work for that as well? Or should I look into something a little different?

[Pitcherman]

The SST coilovers have an amazing amount of travel compared to almost every other standard coilover on the market. Yes you can get into some high dollar stuff that has more but you'll really pay for it. I would talk to the guys at TiC and tell them what you're wanting to do. They will know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that you could use these coilovers to raise the car somewhat. Though doing that is going to cost you some droop travel. The spring rates would probably need to be different from what they typically pair the coilovers with though. Tony or Clint will be able to tell you for sure.

As far as the Vorshlag plates, those things are bullet proof. I've had them for close to a year and have not taken it easy on them by any means. Road course, Auto-x, DD, dirt roads, they've seen it all and are just like the day I bought them. (only a little dirty)

[MoN]

I cant tell you what rally type suspension to get but I have heard that rally coilovers are mega expensive....

[StripesRX]

To sum this thread up.

Everyone should own TiC SST coilovers, Vorshlag plates front and rear, Whiteline sway bars, and have a roll cage.

All other setups are an effort in futility.

:D

^^^This.

Thats exactly what I'm getting, minus the roll cage and plus the Whiteline ALK, Kartboy endlinks and GTSPEC fender cowl braces. :devil:

[Pitcherman]

^^^This.

Thats exactly what I'm getting, minus the roll cage and plus the Whiteline ALK, Kartboy endlinks and GTSPEC fender cowl braces. :devil:Yeah I left a few of the small odds and ends out like end-links and such.

I can tell you though that you will not be disappointed with the coil-overs or the camber plates.

[BoostinChick]

What do you guys think for my setup? Overkill?

Type of driving: Daily/Long commute to/from work. Spirited driving and occasional Auto-X. Going to slap on 18x8.5 rims as well so want a meaner stance.

TiC SST or KW V1's Coilovers
Kartboy Endlinks
24mm Front Sway Bar
22mm Rear Sway Bar

[MoN]

Anyone able to compare the differences between the TiC SST's and the BC BR Racing coilovers? Which are more durable? Which feel better when it comes to comfort?

[BoostinChick]

^ From the reviews I read on NASIOC TiC SST > BC BR

Again, from reading/reviews they said the older BC batches were complete junk. IMHO, the price difference alone shouldn't even make them comparable. I would categorize/compare the BC's in with the Meghan Racing, K-Sports, etc budget setups.

[Pitcherman]

Anyone able to compare the differences between the TiC SST's and the BC BR Racing coilovers? Which are more durable? Which feel better when it comes to comfort?

The SST's, I've ridden in a WRX with BC's a few times and they felt like every other jap tuner coilover. They seem overly stiff for the roads we have over here. I know a lot of people talk them up and I think it's because they honestly have never felt a good coilover set up. I know that some of the BC's had rusting issues, I think they have corrected that but I'm not sure. The SST's are bullet proof and will take whatever daily abuse you throw at them. As far as coilovers go though, I don't think you can put BC and the SST's in the same category. The SST's are on a completely different level engineering wise, compared to the BC's and it shows in the price.

[BoostinChick]

The SST's, I've ridden in a WRX with BC's a few times and they felt like every other jap tuner coilover. They seem overly stiff for the roads we have over here. I know a lot of people talk them up and I think it's because they honestly have never felt a good coilover set up. I know that some of the BC's had rusting issues, I think they have corrected that but I'm not sure. The SST's are bullet proof and will take whatever daily abuse you throw at them. As far as coilovers go though, I don't think you can put BC and the SST's in the same category. The SST's are on a completely different level engineering wise, compared to the BC's and it shows in the price.

^ From the reviews I read on NASIOC TiC SST > BC BR

Again, from reading/reviews they said the older BC batches were complete junk. IMHO, the price difference alone shouldn't even make them comparable. I would categorize/compare the BC's in with the Meghan Racing, K-Sports, etc budget setups.Hi, have we met? Are we soul mates?

[MoN]

Ya we have the BC's and they are SUPER stiff, especially since I live in pothole city... Maybe for someone who lives in flatlands they would be decent but def suck for daily driving around here....It sucks that we spent mega bucks on getting them... I gotta try find someone with these better setups to test ride w/ and actually feel the difference. Tx guys!

[hqp921]

How about upgrading front and rear endlinks, but NOT the sway bars...?

- HP

[MoN]

Ya ed mentioned he wants to upgrade the endlinks but he has to fix the fuel pressure issue first.... And why NOT the sway bars? lol

[hqp921]

Ya ed mentioned he wants to upgrade the endlinks but he has to fix the fuel pressure issue first.... And why NOT the sway bars? lol

Well... The way I see it, and I could be wrong, if you get bigger sways, you "need" to upgrade the endlinks, because a bigger bar is much firmer.

Because the stock pieces are hard rubber, it seems to me that solid endlinks on stock sways would increase the stiffness. Not as stiff as a full bar/endlink set up, but stiffer than stock.

I want to know what advantages there are (for a street vehicle) to this kind of modification.

- HP

[PERRIN_JARID]

Well, 02-07 WRXs used PLASTIC endlinks in the rear. Sooo.. If you are looking to get the FULL potential out of your rear sway, SWAP EM OUT!

[MoN]

Well, 02-07 WRXs used PLASTIC endlinks in the rear. Sooo.. If you are looking to get the FULL potential out of your rear sway, SWAP EM OUT!

Do 04-07 STi's use these same plastic endlinks as well?

[Pitcherman]

Do 04-07 STi's use these same plastic endlinks as well?

nope.

[MoN]

So we wont necesarily have to swap out the endlinks when we install the sway bars he has.... cool.....

[Pitcherman]

So we wont necesarily have to swap out the endlinks when we install the sway bars he has.... cool.....It's still a good idea though. The STi has problems with flipping the rear sway bars and bending the endlinks. Upgrading them takes care of that issue.

[MoN]

It's still a good idea though. The STi has problems with flipping the rear sway bars and bending the endlinks. Upgrading them takes care of that issue.

O that doesnt sound good.... Not like we auto-x or course it or anything, mostly a drag car/Daily Driver lol but prob stil be a good idea....

[buniboo]

Just peeped in here. I have BC coils. Does anyone else have them?

[MoN]

^ Yep we have the BC coilovers in the STi. A bit stiff for the helluva bumpy roads we have here in central MA, but they do there job and keep us grounded over those huge construction "bumps" on the highways lol while everyone else catches air and swerves back and forth in their lanes :lol: .... buuuuut we did end up with diminished endlink bushings shortly after we swapped them in. Was extremely noisy/rattley. We think it may have to do w/ not upgrading the endlinks when we put in the coils and sway bar. If you read a little further up some of the guys suggest upgrading the endlinks after most suspension upgrades to avoid issues. :)

[whtrexgrl]

Mon, Rick & I are having endlink issues too. What kind of endlinks did u have? I have been talking to PERRIN and they said they have had issues in some applications with the rear endlinks breaking..but they will honor them & swap them out with the new design 14k lb ones. Ours haven't broken but my fronts are making noise already after a month: (

[whtrexgrl]

Just peeped in here. I have BC coils. Does anyone else have them?
We both have BC coilovers...& we love them! By far the best bang for your Buck.

[MoN]

Mon, Rick & I are having endlink issues too. What kind of endlinks did u have? I have been talking to PERRIN and they said they have had issues in some applications with the rear endlinks breaking..but they will honor them & swap them out with the new design 14k lb ones. Ours haven't broken but my fronts are making noise already after a month: (

The whiteline endlinks were the ones we had problems with only a month or so after installing the coils. Now we have Perrin and its been about 2 months. The rattling is gone and no issues so far :)

[whtrexgrl]

I couldn't remember which ones you were having a problem with - I'm glad the noise stopped!

[buniboo]

I couldn't remember which ones you were having a problem with - I'm glad the noise stopped!

Was the noise you were experience like a popping/grinding noise? My car has started to make that noise in the rear usually only does it while at low speeds though.

[hqp921]

Endlinks shouldn't... rattle or grind...

Make sure everything's tightened up, and the bushings are greased. If not, you may hear clunking.

Not sure if it's an issue with the sway/endlinks or coilovers. But if you think endlinks/sway - make sure everything's tight and greased.... (oxymoron?).

- HP

[Big-E]

Good thread! I like it.

Believe it or not, if you want to take some fair amount of slop out of the rear of the car, replace the front trailing-link bushing. This is one of those upgrades that is truly a night-and-day difference. The OEM bushing is like bubble-gum.

My good friend got a set of trailing links from BigSkyWRX on NASIOC with the Group-N bushings pressed in. He installs the bushings and does a core-exchange so the price is relatively inexpensive. I myself went with the Whiteline Plus Chassis Control bushings.

I was pleasantly surprised in how much more control there is with the rear of the car after the change. No more slop and I can feel the rear actually doing it's job, instead of the tires taking up the slack.

The Group-N bushings are a pain to install. The Whiteline bushings are easy to install with a hand-held bushing removal/installation tool (looks like a giant C-Clamp and with accessories). SuperPro makes a line of 'split' bushings and Turn in Concepts is also coming out with their own line of split bushings, either brand is real easy to install after you've gotten the old bushings out.

If you decide to install bushings into the trailing links, and want to do the rear bushing, it is pressed into the knuckle. The Group-N is near to impossible to do with the backing plate in place. The Whiteline however is easy to install with the tool, but you will need both adequate working space because you will need two people to do the install. Trying to hold the bushing while trying to hold the adapters for the tool won't happen if it's only you doing the install.

The split bushings of course are the easiest to install. One side here, one side there and a crush-tube in the middle.

As always, Happy Motoring!

[MoN]

Was the noise you were experience like a popping/grinding noise? My car has started to make that noise in the rear usually only does it while at low speeds though.

It was a rattling and a loud clunking noise. And it was at all times, any bump large or small.... DEF make sue whos installing them lubes them up good like HP said. Ed said this may have been another addition as to why the bushings had worn so fast because he forgot to lube them... But that alone should cause them to wear so fast. Honestly we think the whiteline bushings were just crap... Will never recommend them to anyone. I wish we would have taken a pic to show you guys of how bad they were when he pulled them out.

[buniboo]

Awesome I will have to look at it again. I will let you know how it goes. :)

[Big-E]

It was a rattling and a loud clunking noise. And it was at all times, any bump large or small.... DEF make sue whos installing them lubes them up good like HP said. Ed said this may have been another addition as to why the bushings had worn so fast because he forgot to lube them... But that alone should cause them to wear so fast. Honestly we think the whiteline bushings were just crap... Will never recommend them to anyone. I wish we would have taken a pic to show you guys of how bad they were when he pulled them out.

Out of curiosity, which bushings?

[MoN]

Out of curiosity, which bushings?

Whiteline Front Endlink Bushings...

[Big-E]

Whiteline Front Endlink Bushings...

Ok.

I've also read that people have had problems with Whiteline's endlinks.

My concern actually was that I have Whiteline Plus Chassis Control bushings in my trailing links and I will have them in a set of performance lateral links that I have on order. I will soon be installing these bushings into the traverse links (control arms) front bushing position and I have the ALK at the rear.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Vew]

It was a rattling and a loud clunking noise. And it was at all times, any bump large or small.... DEF make sue whos installing them lubes them up good like HP said. Ed said this may have been another addition as to why the bushings had worn so fast because he forgot to lube them... But that alone should cause them to wear so fast. Honestly we think the whiteline bushings were just crap... Will never recommend them to anyone. I wish we would have taken a pic to show you guys of how bad they were when he pulled them out.

I had a similar issue with my Perrin RSB and endlinks. After endless weeks trying to source the cause, found it was the RSB bushing in the mount they provided. They prematurely wore out. You could smack the bar with your fist and see the bar move within the bushing and hear the clunking noise that I would only hear on bumps. I ordered a new set (they get them from energy suspension) and made sure I lubed them heavily. Lasted about a year and a half before wearing out again.

Finally bent that stupid RSB after snapping my lateral link on Friday.

And just as a note to this thread. I recommend reading this thread I started a while back if you're considering lowering springs. CN: lowering a little will help, lowering a lot will make handling worse.
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f53/lowering-springs-misconception-9954/

[bannerd]

I honestly think tein for track use are a big pile of SHIT! Yet everyone is different, I would personally be looking at Ohlins, way better quality. Even the ground control coil over is better quality than the tein. As far as a rally strut you're going to want a gravel spec. Ksport makes a really nice piece;

http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/coilovers_detail.asp?product_id=cd03

If you don't have the money to buy coil overs then just stick with stock. You can always rebuild them with Koni inserts just remember to really grease the shock before you put it in the strut. Of course coilovers are useless with out a nice track/off-road tire :p

[enginerd]

Great information and analysis. My current suspension mods...replaced 17 mm RSB with 20mm RSB and new bushings (OE from WRX sedan), Replaced BLOWN OE struts with Tokico D-Specs which are damping adjustable (really nice for adjusting to whatever surface I'm racing on), still using OE springs, and Kartboy front and rear Endlinks. Over all great 'Stage 1' improvements for improving turn in and responsiveness both on and off the track, and I still have a nice Daily Driver.

My next suspension plans are a full TiC/Kartboy package of bushings all around and possibly some strut braces and chasis braces.

[Big-E]

My next suspension plans are a full TiC/Kartboy package of bushings all around and possibly some strut braces and chasis braces.

^^you'll be happy when you do these :D