Perrin Master Cylinder Brace?

[BoostinChick]

Just looking for some reviews and opinions. Thinking about getting it for my DD but not 100% sure. For those that have it, did it make a huge difference?

http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/PSP-BRK-400.jpg

[BoostinChick]

Anyone?

[MoN]

Sorry no can help, I dont even know what that thing does or where it even goes!! :rolleyes:

[xxthat girlxx]

Sorry no can help, I dont even know what that thing does or where it even goes!! :rolleyes:

A master cylinder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_cylinder) is a control device that converts non-hydraulic pressure (commonly from a driver's foot) into hydraulic pressure, in order to move other device(s) which are located at the other end of the hydraulic system system, such as one or more slave cylinders.

In your STi it is on the drivers side of the car attached to the side of or near the transmission.


Sorry Boostin - never used one. :(

[jessickascarling]

ya... i'd be interested to get an opinion/answer on this as well... not for me but for others who may have the same question.

[MoN]

So reading the wiki def of a master cyl brace, it sais there are two, one for clutch and one for brakes. Sarah you mentioned this being attached/next to the tranny, so Im guessing this is for clutch in an STi/wrx? And what exactly is it supposed to do? cuz telling me that it converts hydrolic pressure is like waaayyy over my head! lol, sorry I just want to understand the neccesity for one of these... :)

[BoostinChick]

It's for the brake master cylinder

With the 06-07 models, the master cylinder for the brakes just kind of hangs there. When going under hard breaking, there is movement, increasing the wear. They say this movement can cause faulty MC for the brakes, but who knows. From reading it's supposed to brace the MC to the firewall to give a better/stiff pedal feel. It's not really noticeable unless you are hitting the brakes hard. Really debatable though, because people mention they feel a difference right away and other say that this is completely useless and it did nothing for them.

[MoN]

hmmmm... interesting. Now I'd like to know other people opinions on it too. Have you posted the question on any other forums?

[BoostinChick]

hmmmm... interesting. Now I'd like to know other people opinions on it too. Have you posted the question on any other forums?Nope, I want to post on NASIOC but I am sure I will get flamed and a bunch of opinions (from people who probably have never used it or installed it).

[MoN]

Nope, I want to post on NASIOC but I am sure I will get flamed and a bunch of opinions (from people who probably have never used it or installed it).

Lol true, and yet sad, supposed to be a site for resources such as this and we cant even use it as it should be thanks to all the douche's on the site.....

Question: Why exactly are you thinking about getting these? Do you not like the way your brakes feel or perform?

[BoostinChick]

When I bought the car, the brake master cylinder failed within days. This is a daily for me and I am not that crazy of a driver. Thankfully, the dealership did fix it right away w/o charging me. I asked the mechanic if these just go bad often or if he ever replaced one, and he said "Not on a 3 year old car..."

I have been real easy on the brake pedal since then and I also have read the description on vendor's web sites "...The Perrin master cylinder support brace provides the much needed support for the master cylinder and brake booster that the stock setup just can't provide. When force is placed against the brake pedal, the brake booster and master cylinder will actually flex, and over time can fatigue to the point of failure."

Source: http://www.jscspeed.com/catalog/Subaru/02_07_WRX_STI/Brakes/Perrin_Master_Cylinder_Support_Bracket_for_02_07_S ubaru_WRX_STI.html

So between ^ ^ that and my already negative experience with my brake master cylinder I feel I have a biased opinion, lol.

[MoN]

Ya I mean from what Ed was trying to explain to me they are supposed to get rid of that sloppy brake pedal feel, and they are supposed to aide in the performance of the brakes, so w/ your prior issue, I''d prob want one too just to be secure.... Now its just finding someone who has this Perrin one to get an idea on how well it works huh!

[PERRIN_JARID]

Here's the insert from the part on our website...

""Solid as a rock, the PERRIN Performance™ Master Cylinder Support quickly solves a long-time Subaru braking issue: flexing of the firewall under hard braking. Crafted from 6061 aluminum, our adjustable Master Cylinder Support bolts from the brake master cylinder to the driver-side shock tower to fix the problem and deliver firmness to the pedal.

Like most cars, the brake master cylinder and brake booster all bolted to the fire wall. In most cars it not a noticeable thing, but the firewall flexes when the brakes are applied. The harder you push the more it flexes. The PERRIN Master Cylinder Stiffi keeps the firewall from flexing by using the shock tower to brace against as the wall starts to flex. This simple device is a noticeable improvement, similar to upgrading to Stainless Steel Braided Brake lines.""

I have driven a car with/without and there is a difference. If you have had your car for some time you will notice a difference as you are used to your car's reaction to certain things. If you just got your car you might not..

[BoostinChick]

Thanks for the post, Jarid. I have had the car for about 5 months now and my daily commute to work is ~80 miles/day. From what you are saying, I should notice a difference. With my previous experience with the master brake cylinder, you can see why I am a bit paranoid about it failing again. I will try out this product and write my own review, hopefully it will help out fellow members who may be in a similar position.

[PERRIN_JARID]

Thanks for the post, Jarid. I have had the car for about 5 months now and my daily commute to work is ~80 miles/day. From what you are saying, I should notice a difference. With my previous experience with the master brake cylinder, you can see why I am a bit paranoid about it failing again. I will try out this product and write my own review, hopefully it will help out fellow members who may be in a similar position.

Call me today and I will help ya out :)

[BoostinChick]

Jarid, I will give you a call tomorrow. I got super slammed at work and didn't end up leaving until about 6.

Thanks again!

[*MissImprezzed*]

I installed that Perrin MBM in my WRX years ago, and in my case the effect was impressive (I bit the steering wheel first time I did braking after fitting). But I replaced the OEM brake pipes by steel brake pipes at the same time, so I don't know if the MBM is the only reason for this effect.

Anyway, I can recommend it :)

[bannerd]

Just looking for some reviews and opinions. Thinking about getting it for my DD but not 100% sure. For those that have it, did it make a huge difference?

http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/PSP-BRK-400.jpg

It's just a support bracket for the master cylinder to brace it. Nice to have if you have big brakes installed or are really slamming and jamming on the brakes. When you hit the brakes hard there is a flex/play that goes on. Usually used for racing, if the price is right then go for it.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/shared/PERRIN/documents/instructions/subaru/pspbrk400.pdf

Here is my drawing, it helps.. you'll notice when you sit in your car at idle and keep pressing the brakes the motor dies a bit. The brace should help get rid of the flex and improve harder braking. Problem is here in the picture I drew.. don't laugh.

http://i43.tinypic.com/5e5ph4.png

[PERRIN_JARID]

Here is my drawing, it helps.. you'll notice when you sit in your car at idle and keep pressing the brakes the motor dies a bit. The brace should help get rid of the flex and improve harder braking. Problem is here in the picture I drew.. don't laugh.

http://i43.tinypic.com/5e5ph4.png
Im going to use the on our website from now on! :)

[bannerd]

Im going to use the on our website from now on! :)

for a price!:lol:

[StripesRX]

My Perrin Master Cylinder Brace should be coming in tomorrow. I'll give it a full test after I put it in.

I'll be completely unbiased too! :D

[bannerd]

My Perrin Master Cylinder Brace should be coming in tomorrow. I'll give it a full test after I put it in.

I'll be completely unbiased too! :D

Yeah, very easy install, hard part is getting around the fuel lines.

[StripesRX]

Yeah, very easy install, hard part is getting around the fuel lines.

The fuel lines weren't the pain, it was getting around the strut tower to screw in the nut for the wheel well bolt! A little ingenuity and a long extension and it went in:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/StripesRX/100_0406.jpg

Much nicer pedal feel. Theres no more "squish" feeling once you hit the braking point. Me likes! :cool:

[bannerd]

The fuel lines weren't the pain, it was getting around the strut tower to screw in the nut for the wheel well bolt! A little ingenuity and a long extension and it went in:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/StripesRX/100_0406.jpg

Much nicer pedal feel. Theres no more "squish" feeling once you hit the braking point. Me likes! :cool:

Odd, the strut was pretty easy for me, it was the solid fuel line inside the rubber housing that was a biatch! My car is a 2006 so there is a huge ass air compressor right there and it's not fun.

[BoostinChick]

Purdy! Still haven't had time to pick one up! Been slaving away on the GSX to get it track ready.

[PERRIN_Adam]

Great thread! And not just because it helps PERRIN out!

The statement below definitely parrots what MANY people have found out (regardless of gender I might add)

Nope, I want to post on NASIOC but I am sure I will get flamed and a bunch of opinions (from people who probably have never used it or installed it).

This is a great example of a reasonably priced product that makes for a reasonable installation effort and a very noticeable difference. I equate it to a short shifter (and/or bushings) where EVERY time you drive the car, you gain a tangible improvement in the driving experience!

Again kudos!

[CamaroWRX]

I've been debating getting one of these braces, but I'm not sure I have room with the external reservoir for my AST shocks.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Q6X2X_0tTXo/ShhkmeridPI/AAAAAAAAHnk/WBfAwJslw7M/s400/esp%20wrx%20005.jpg

Since I had the stainless steel braided lines put on over the winter, I often feel I have to "pump" the pedal in order to get a firm (not spongy) pedal. Should the brace improve that? Yes, the brakes have been bled, and I run ATE Superblue fluid.

[StripesRX]

In a word, yeah. The "squish" that you get in the pedal when you brake will be gone. I have SS lines and ATE Superblue(good choice ;)) and the before and after feel is rather noticable.

And looks like you might have to move the reservoir for the install, once its in the brace isn't exactly a moving part. Mount the reservoir to it if you need to! :)

[PERRIN_Adam]

CamaroWRX / StripesRX: I agree it should work. Might require a slight change in the mount of the reservoir, but possibly not at all. Regardless, can't imagine it would a tough change.

You will love the part though if you do pull the trigger!

Let me know how I can help!

[CamaroWRX]

CamaroWRX / StripesRX: I agree it should work. Might require a slight change in the mount of the reservoir, but possibly not at all. Regardless, can't imagine it would a tough change.

You will love the part though if you do pull the trigger!

Let me know how I can help!
I need to check on the legality of the part for Street Prepared before I do anything. Stupid rule sets and all. :(

[StripesRX]

Under 15.6 of SCCA rules:

A. Any brake line, single or dual master cylinder, vacuum brake booster,
or brake proportioning valves may be used. This does not allow multiple
separate cylinders, but does allow for any single, dual-circuit
cylinder.

It doesn't say anything about bracing...

[CamaroWRX]

Under 15.6 of SCCA rules:

A. Any brake line, single or dual master cylinder, vacuum brake booster,
or brake proportioning valves may be used. This does not allow multiple
separate cylinders, but does allow for any single, dual-circuit
cylinder.

It doesn't say anything about bracing...
Which is why I sent a letter to the SEB earlier today. It was assigned log #2447.

I wish things like this and the subframe lockdown bolts were explicitly allowed. <sigh>

[StripesRX]

Yeah... trying to build a suspension plan is 75% figuring out what is allowed and not...

Could you keep me in the loop about the subframe lockdown bolts? I'm vaguely sure that they're allowed in SM, because you're not adding holes for the bolts just using holes that were already there. *shrug*

Reading the rules makes my head spin...

[CamaroWRX]

Yeah... trying to build a suspension plan is 75% figuring out what is allowed and not...
Yeah, I sent a letter about lockdown bolts a while ago, and it was never addressed in Fastrack even though I had a log number and everything. I might push on that one again.

I just borrowed a Perrin master cylinder brace from IAG to see a) if it fits without having to completely reposition the reservoir on that side, and b) if it does make a difference.

If both conditions are met, then I'll worry about legality issues. If I can't get it and the canister to work together in the space available, or if it doesn't make any difference, then the legality thing doesn't matter.

Otherwise, I'm going to start looking under "brackets" instead of "brakes" in the rules and go from there.

[edit]
Here are pics of the space constraint issues :
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs156.ash2/41144_419912951636_662741636_5392209_1723736_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs257.snc4/40172_419913451636_662741636_5392253_3864743_n.jpg

I'm going to mess with moving the canister tomorrow (Saturday), since there is still a good threat of rain/thunderstorms for the rest of today.

[CamaroWRX]

Yeah, looked at it more this morning. If it can work with the reservoir, I'm not going to be able to make it do it. I will see if IAG can do something with it this week, otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it.

[GreenMarine]

My Personal Opinion: Don't get it... It's a waste of $ if you put it on your DD... My STi was tracked and raced competitively for about 50,000miles of it's life, and it doesn't have one. It's still totally fine :)

Put your money into something else :)

~ Chris

[CamaroWRX]

My Personal Opinion: Don't get it... It's a waste of $ if you put it on your DD... My STi was tracked and raced competitively for about 50,000miles of it's life, and it doesn't have one. It's still totally fine :)

Put your money into something else :)
If I have the opportunity to try it for free, I think I will at least try it out.

But right now, it's going to cause more of an issue than anything, since one of the AST canisters will have to be moved in order to put any brace there, Perrin or otherwise.

I'll revisit it during the "off" season. :)

[Big-E]

I had the Perrin MBC stopper and liked it. Then I installed a Carbing one-piece strut-brace with an integrated MBC stopper, so the Perrin came out. I bought the Carbing bar since it was one-piece, and not for the integrated MBC stopper.

I have since installed a Turn in Concepts ("TiC") MBC and removed the adjustable stopper from the Carbing bar. The TiC MBC stopper is a monster. It utilizes four mounting points and IMO has virtually no flex to it.

Carbing:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Big-E-WRX/UnderhoodLEDs001.jpg

TiC:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Big-E-WRX/DSC02171.jpg

[Woody '04]

i have debated one of these and also braided stainless brake lines.

folks seem to alternately say they made a big difference or no difference. not sure who to believe. :confused:

also not clear on if the stainless kits also work for rear drum brakes or not. so far not enough interest and/or too lazy to measure my car versus friend with disc brakes. :D

[PERRIN_Adam]

Woody_'04: Are you asking if the stainless lines make little to no difference or the PERRIN Brake Stiffi? (http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/180)

The reason I ask, BOTH should make a noticeable difference. They increase pedal stiffness in two different ways though. the PERRIN Brake STIFFI prevents the pedal assembly from moving and the other increases resistance in the lines (by the rubber being replaced that would otherwise swell).

So if the budget permits, do both!

Let me know if I can help further!

Adam @ PERRIN Performance

[Woody '04]

Woody_'04: Are you asking if the stainless lines make little to no difference or the PERRIN Brake Stiffi? (http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/180)

The reason I ask, BOTH should make a noticeable difference. They increase pedal stiffness in two different ways though. the PERRIN Brake STIFFI prevents the pedal assembly from moving and the other increases resistance in the lines (by the rubber being replaced that would otherwise swell).

So if the budget permits, do both!

Let me know if I can help further!

Adam @ PERRIN Performance

thx for the info. I was really asking about both.

Would you do a brace first or braided stainless lines first, strictly from the standpoint of "pedal feel", (not cost or installation concerns)? I have to say the Perrin looks better than some braces I have seen.

Although the stainless lines look cool, the "rubber" lines are actually steel inside too. Not saying the stainless doesn't help, but I wonder why it really does? Maybe the inner steel is thicker or something?

All the ones I have seen seem to be for disc brakes on all 4 corners. I have drums on the back and don't have any interest in going to disc, so I wasn't sure if the common stainless brake line kits would also work for drum rears or not? (I tow but don't race and have MT so can gear down going downhill). I think I heard of a local place that could do custom lines, but again haven't checked it out yet.


I am really intrigued about these brake upgrades. So many posts I have seen (at many forums/sites/reviews etc) seem either black/white it's crazy! :confused:

[PERRIN_Adam]

thx for the info. I was really asking about both.

Would you do a brace first or braided stainless lines first, strictly from the standpoint of "pedal feel", (not cost or installation concerns)? I have to say the Perrin looks better than some braces I have seen.

Although the stainless lines look cool, the "rubber" lines are actually steel inside too. Not saying the stainless doesn't help, but I wonder why it really does? Maybe the inner steel is thicker or something?

All the ones I have seen seem to be for disc brakes on all 4 corners. I have drums on the back and don't have any interest in going to disc, so I wasn't sure if the common stainless brake line kits would also work for drum rears or not? (I tow but don't race and have MT so can gear down going downhill). I think I heard of a local place that could do custom lines, but again haven't checked it out yet.


I am really intrigued about these brake upgrades. So many posts I have seen (at many forums/sites/reviews etc) seem either black/white it's crazy! :confused:

Thanks for the reply. The PERRIN Brake STIFFI is something you will notice EVERYTIME you poke the pedal. The Stainless Lines are most noticeable when the lines are hot and they don't expand the way the OEM lines do.

The stainless lines aren't as critical on the rear with drums or discs and the bulk of the braking force (and thus heat) is generated up front.

Hope that helps cloud things further!

Thanks again!

Adam @ PERRIN Performance

[Vew]

There is an immediate noticeable difference once you install stainless steel lines. I have never experienced anything that would indicate that you only feel it due to temperature changes. If you do, the results are negligible. This is even after putting the brakes through so much work to experience brake fade.

I highly recommend stainless steel lines. It will remove the initial mushy feeling that you experience once you first apply the brakes. It's not too difficult to install yourself, you might need a special type of open ended wrench that you can pick up from an autoparts store for about $10 for a cheap set.